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Stephen Burke
July 9th 03, 10:54 PM
George Hills > wrote:
> AFAIK Hyundai and Daewoo are Korean.

How many Hyundai cars have you seen? Daewoo went bust, but in any case AFAIR
they made them in Europe, Korean company or not. Likewise my Nissan was made
in Sunderland.

--
Stephen Burke

Stephen Burke
July 9th 03, 10:57 PM
Ronald Raygun > wrote:
> J Edgar Hoover. But it was a complete and utter disaster, so he

Yes, he was swept out of office and it left a power vacuum.

--
Stephen Burke

Stephen
July 10th 03, 10:44 PM
Stephen Burke > wrote in message
...
> George Hills > wrote:
> > AFAIK Hyundai and Daewoo are Korean.
>
> How many Hyundai cars have you seen? Daewoo went bust, but in any case
AFAIR
> they made them in Europe, Korean company or not. Likewise my Nissan was
made
> in Sunderland.
>
> --
> Stephen Burke


Good Point! I heard that out of all European locations the Japanese
pinpointed the UK as being the most cost effective due to the productivity
of our workers. So thats nice to know.

Stephen
July 10th 03, 10:44 PM
Stephen Burke > wrote in message
...
> Ronald Raygun > wrote:
> > J Edgar Hoover. But it was a complete and utter disaster, so he
>
> Yes, he was swept out of office and it left a power vacuum.
>
> --
> Stephen Burke

hehe your not the only Wit Raygun.

Stephen
July 11th 03, 12:41 AM
George Hills > wrote in message
. ..
> Stephen > wrote:
>
> > I can't believe what I'm hearing, if it was'nt for marketing and sales,
you
> > would'nt even have a job most likely....you would have no fancy car,
sales
>
> Fancy car? Me? Yes, dear.
>
> > I can understand a few jokes about telemarketing, but I am talking about
the
>
> "Jokes" is the least telemarketers deserve. Cold-callers are scum.
>
> > customer relations, public relations, it is all marketing.....
>
> aka "ways of covering up that the product is ****e".


Georgy!!!! There is really nooo need to be so negative about
telemarketers....

Have you any idea how much "CONFIDENCE" it takes to COLD CALL someone.......

I have to be confident, otherwise I would not have the nerve to call up
someone I don't know....especially if they are rude.

Even today I had one man, who was so rude he virtually slammed the phone
down before I had even gotten my sentence out!!!

Rude rude rudeness is never necessary in any situation....

I am not saying your rude, in fact you might be quite polite on the phone...

That man who I cold called today, could have been saved quite a bit of money
from the particular product I was selling today!!!

Mega cheap price for my product but MEGA BIG SAVINGS TO HIS BUSINESS!!!!!

He slammed the phone down on his profit....

He slammed the phone down on massive savings..

He slammed the phone down on opportunity

and he closed his door of luck when he slammed the phone down on me..

I am the best and biggest deal maker there is on the phone...I ONLY sell
great deals that really help people..

Otherwise GEORGE how could I be so ENTHUSIASTIC and have such UNSHAKABLE
FAITH in my various products!

I am not the average kind of telemarketer...I am the king of deal
makers.....

So if you get a telephone call from me....don't close down your window of
opportunity George......otherwise you may just be slamming the door to more
profits.
>

Ronald Raygun
July 11th 03, 10:57 AM
Stephen wrote:

> Cawww!! I have to admit...it takes a heck of alot to impress me, but how
> you manged to think up that story, and fit it into mental plausability..is
> pretty damned impressive....old bean..
>
> Well I have to say I was rather impressed and do see your point!

Then learn from it and better your ways.

> Know I'm sure you a marketing man yourself..you must be, otherwise how
> could you think up something so creatively plausable...and you sound like
> a really intelligent person, so you must be into marketing...

Your sense of logic beggars belief.

Anyway, it's been mildly amusing having you around for a bit of
light relief while not much else is going on, this being the holiday
season, but enough is enough, and it's high time we sent you to
Coventry. Have a nice trip and don't hurry back.

Timothy Lee
July 11th 03, 12:45 PM
In article >, Stephen <indiantravelcom
> writes
>
>Ronald Raygun > wrote in message
[Equilateral triangles]

>You are a financial advisor..so don't tell me you learnt this at GCSE
>physics lessons...

Why ever not? More likely to be O-level Maths I would have thought, but
just because someone has an occupation why should they not have
knowledge of anything else? I may be an estate agent and do non-reg
life and mortgages, but that doesn't stop me having a physics degree!

--
Timothy Lee http://www.wightproperty.com

Stephen
July 11th 03, 01:46 PM
Ronald Raygun > wrote in message
...
> Stephen wrote:
>
> > Cawww!! I have to admit...it takes a heck of alot to impress me, but how
> > you manged to think up that story, and fit it into mental
plausability..is
> > pretty damned impressive....old bean..
> >
> > Well I have to say I was rather impressed and do see your point!
>
> Then learn from it and better your ways.

I don't need to better my ways thankyou very much..I have made my point
sufficiently with regard to selling..and marketing..and thats it.
>
> > Know I'm sure you a marketing man yourself..you must be, otherwise how
> > could you think up something so creatively plausable...and you sound
like
> > a really intelligent person, so you must be into marketing...
>
> Your sense of logic beggars belief.



>
> Anyway, it's been mildly amusing having you around for a bit of
> light relief while not much else is going on, this being the holiday
> season, but enough is enough, and it's high time we sent you to
> Coventry. Have a nice trip and don't hurry back.


Ha, you mock if you like, the fact is, I have made my point about marketing,
and you know the points I make and you know they are valid...

The banter aside, they are simple but relevant points all focusing on the
importance of marketing in the world economy, and thats really the main
point of what I have been saying.
Whilst it is very important I am not saying it is the only thing that
matters.


>

Stephen
July 11th 03, 01:47 PM
Timothy Lee > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Stephen <indiantravelcom
> > writes
> >
> >Ronald Raygun > wrote in message
> [Equilateral triangles]
>
> >You are a financial advisor..so don't tell me you learnt this at GCSE
> >physics lessons...
>
> Why ever not? More likely to be O-level Maths I would have thought, but
> just because someone has an occupation why should they not have
> knowledge of anything else? I may be an estate agent and do non-reg
> life and mortgages, but that doesn't stop me having a physics degree!
>
> --
> Timothy Lee http://www.wightproperty.com

In fact almost two thirds of graduates enter something that is non related
to their degree, so your spot on their old bean!

Daytona
July 11th 03, 02:36 PM
On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:41:21 +0100, "Stephen" >
wrote:

>Even today I had one man, who was so rude he virtually slammed the phone
>down before I had even gotten my sentence out!!!
>
>Rude rude rudeness is never necessary in any situation....

What is or isn't rude is a matter of opinion. Perhaps he though you were rude
and lacking respect by calling him, unsolicited. Telephones are rude
instruments, they take no account of whether it's convenient for the recipient
to talk, and interrupt what their doing, showing a lack of respect. If you had
used written communication, which outlined the details in full, allowing him to
assess your proposal with the minimum of effort, this would have shown more
respect.

Daytona

Stephen
July 11th 03, 02:41 PM
Daytona > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:41:21 +0100, "Stephen"
>
> wrote:
>
> >Even today I had one man, who was so rude he virtually slammed the phone
> >down before I had even gotten my sentence out!!!
> >
> >Rude rude rudeness is never necessary in any situation....
>
> What is or isn't rude is a matter of opinion. Perhaps he though you were
rude
> and lacking respect by calling him, unsolicited. Telephones are rude
> instruments, they take no account of whether it's convenient for the
recipient
> to talk, and interrupt what their doing, showing a lack of respect.


I agree with what you say 100%. I also agree that the nature of the beast,
ie the telephone is rude....or someone might have been having a bad day...

However, there are also a certain number of the population who are just
"rude natured" "aggressive natured" "unpleasant natured"...they enjoy any
chance they can to be horrible, mean or nasty, as anybody who has a job
where they interact with members of the public..or provide any service will
say.

If you had used written communication, which outlined the details in full,
allowing him to
> assess your proposal with the minimum of effort, this would have shown
more
> respect.

>
> Daytona

Stephen
July 11th 03, 02:45 PM
Daytona > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:41:21 +0100, "Stephen"
>
> wrote:
>
> >Even today I had one man, who was so rude he virtually slammed the phone
> >down before I had even gotten my sentence out!!!
> >
> >Rude rude rudeness is never necessary in any situation....
>
> What is or isn't rude is a matter of opinion. Perhaps he though you were
rude
> and lacking respect by calling him, unsolicited. Telephones are rude
> instruments, they take no account of whether it's convenient for the
recipient
> to talk, and interrupt what their doing, showing a lack of respect. If you
had
> used written communication, which outlined the details in full, allowing
him to
> assess your proposal with the minimum of effort, this would have shown
more
> respect.
>
> Daytona

The only answer is I have to develop the anatomy of a rhinocerous....in as
far as having "thick skin"......so i don't take it personally the abuse and
insults..hurled..and phones slammed....

Martin McGranaghan
July 11th 03, 03:13 PM
"Stephen" > wrote in message
...
>
> The only answer is I have to develop the anatomy of a rhinocerous....in as
> far as having "thick skin"......so i don't take it personally the abuse
and
> insults..hurled..and phones slammed....

You're a saint, really you are.

Stephen
July 11th 03, 03:29 PM
Martin McGranaghan > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stephen" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > The only answer is I have to develop the anatomy of a rhinocerous....in
as
> > far as having "thick skin"......so i don't take it personally the abuse
> and
> > insults..hurled..and phones slammed....
>
> You're a saint, really you are.

Ahhh but please note, I said "I have to" meaning in the future tense..

To be frank, really I don't like it at all...

Its quite nerve racking, I mean let me be candid, even the best salesmen
really shy away from the telephone cold call..it is easy for anybody to just
slam the phone down and be rude, or give out strong rejection vibes.

I'm not at all a saint, I just have the same feelings as everybody else..and
hate rudeness, but it comes with the job!

I need to secure a good cash basis for my businesses, and there is a big
demand for this unpopular and unpleasant work.

You may see how even these good folk regard me as a "telemarkting
pariah"........!! So you can imagine how any of them would react if I phoned
them up trying to flogg em something?

In truth, it is soul destroying sometimes..if people are negative..

Although yesterday I had a lovely chat with some nice guy who spends half
his time in Australia, he was telling me about his life and everything, even
though I did'nt sell him my product, I enjoyed giving my time to him to
listen about his nice life!
>
>

Stephen
July 12th 03, 12:16 AM
Ronald points his Raygun at Stephen and commands!!::
>
"ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" enough is enough, and it's high time we sent you to
> Coventry. Have a nice trip and don't hurry back.


Ohh ronald, thanks for the tip, what is so good about coventry, are there
any grants for small manufacturing businesses , or is it a great place to
consider "buy to lets"?

Funily enough I can't say I can remember going to coventry, although I must
have been there in the past, to visit clients..

I'll send you a postcard!

Byeeeee

Stephen GoldenGun
July 12th 03, 05:11 PM
Tiddy Ogg > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:46:18 GMT, Ronald Raygun
> > ejaculated:
>
> >Stephen wrote:
> >
> >> Ronald Raygun > wrote
> >>> Stephen wrote:
> >>> > Am I the only lone voice in the wilderness???
> >>>
> >>> How many lone voices can there be? If more than one, they are
> >>> no longer lone!
> >>
> >> I should say.."am I the the voice alone in a wilderness"?
> >
> >Alone on a desert island, more like.
> >No man is an island entire of itself, except our Stephen, and the
> >bell tolls only for marketing men, long may they rot in hell.
> >(With apologies to JD)
> >
> >>> > Have I no support?
> >>>
> >>> Yes.
> >>
> >> My dear fellow
> >>
> >> by answering "yes" are you saying yes I have no support,
> >
> >Of course I am.
> That is the correct use of English, and should be unambiguious.
> If your sales patter is as inaccurate as your posts, Steven, and your
> colleagues' likewise, it is no wonder that complaints to the Finance
> Ombudsman have increased considerably.
> All salesmen must be regarded as crooks until proved otherwise.
>
> - Tiddy.


Why dont you get your facts right..

I have many businesses but am involved in business to business via the
telephone.....OK, so it does not mean I am exclusively using the
telephone..and nor does it mean our phone calls we make are uninvited.

If you can't get your facts right, and if you can't give intelligent
credibly replies, then go and make your own subjects that people can reply
to.


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George Hills
July 13th 03, 12:11 PM
Stephen Burke > wrote:

>> AFAIK Hyundai and Daewoo are Korean.
> How many Hyundai cars have you seen?

Plenty!

> Daewoo went bust, but in any case AFAIR
> they made them in Europe, Korean company or not. Likewise my Nissan was made
> in Sunderland.

Daewoo still make and sell cars - under the "GM Daewoo" badge now.

I didn't know they were made in Europe. Are you sure?

Paul Robson
July 13th 03, 03:44 PM
George Hills wrote:

>> Daewoo went bust, but in any case AFAIR
>> they made them in Europe, Korean company or not. Likewise my Nissan was
>> made in Sunderland.
>
> Daewoo still make and sell cars - under the "GM Daewoo" badge now.
>
> I didn't know they were made in Europe. Are you sure?

The Matiz I had certainly wasn't. It was manufactured in Korea (I think) and
shipped into the country at Avonmouth (I think) where Daewoo have, or had
anyway, a reception.

Stephen GoldenGun
July 13th 03, 06:25 PM
George Hills > wrote in message
. ..
> Stephen Burke > wrote:
>
> >> AFAIK Hyundai and Daewoo are Korean.
> > How many Hyundai cars have you seen?
>
> Plenty!
>
> > Daewoo went bust, but in any case AFAIR
> > they made them in Europe, Korean company or not. Likewise my Nissan was
made
> > in Sunderland.
>
> Daewoo still make and sell cars - under the "GM Daewoo" badge now.
>
> I didn't know they were made in Europe. Are you sure?

There is a daewoo factory in Poland..but it was having big problems due to
the fact the company was going bust...


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 13th 03, 06:26 PM
John Blake > wrote in message
...
> In message id > on Wed, 9 Jul 2003
> 19:22:08 +0100, Stephen wrote in uk.finance :
>
> >
> >Jon > wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> > > > OK not invented but who unfolded DNA? It was an englishmen....or
a
> >> > > > scotsman..
> >> > >
> >> > > The project was completed ahead of schedule because of the work
done
> >by
> >> > the
> >> > > Chinese.
> >> > >
> >> > That is totally untrue!
> >>
> >>
> >> I saw a program on tv about this.
> >>
> >> I believe that us lab worked together with labs in China, where because
of
> >> lower costs, faster progress was made than with the same funds in the
us,
> >> and this enabled the final stage to be completed ahead of expectations.
> >>
> >> Some details of the Chinese invlovment here :
> >>
> >> http://www.genomics.org.cn/bgi/english2/news/news030416_1.htm
> >
> >really??
> >
> >I'm gobsmacked..I have scientific qualifications in Chemistry and Biology
> >and have studied the discovery of DNA and never heard any mention of
> >Chinese chaps?
> >
> >I obviously could'nt swear blind that it was no chinese involvement
because
> >I was'nt there at the time....
>
> They obviously need a marketing department as their message has failed
> to get across.
>

Ho Ho Ho! <g>
>
> --
> If you must reply by email remove SPAM BLOKA and hope
> your message isn't deleted on sight.


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Ronald Raygun
July 14th 03, 01:27 AM
Stephen GoldenGun wrote:

> John Blake > wrote
>> Ronald Raygun wrote in uk.finance :
>>
>> > Much relieved, he goes home for a good night's sleep and
>> >next morning he pays the pawn shop another visit. The shopkeeper is
>> >most alarmed and protests that he told him he mustn't come back
>> >with it. -- "Relax, my good man, I haven't got in with me. I was
>> >just wondering whether you had any stuffed telemarketers."
>>
>> LOL
>
> You'll just encourage him to post more jokes at my expense...I thnk he was
> "targeting me"

Do you think I was hinting you should get stuffed?

Stephen GoldenGun
July 14th 03, 01:31 AM
Ronald Raygun > wrote in message
...
> Stephen GoldenGun wrote:
>
> > John Blake > wrote
> >> Ronald Raygun wrote in uk.finance :
> >>
> >> > Much relieved, he goes home for a good night's sleep and
> >> >next morning he pays the pawn shop another visit. The shopkeeper is
> >> >most alarmed and protests that he told him he mustn't come back
> >> >with it. -- "Relax, my good man, I haven't got in with me. I was
> >> >just wondering whether you had any stuffed telemarketers."
> >>
> >> LOL
> >
> > You'll just encourage him to post more jokes at my expense...I thnk he
was
> > "targeting me"
>
> Do you think I was hinting you should get stuffed?


"don't be so rude young man".., a man of your standing should be more
respectful!


>


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Peter Saxton
July 15th 03, 10:43 PM
On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:16:52 +0100, "Stephen"
> wrote:

>MARKETING.
>
>I ask the honorable gentlemen of this forum to honestly give their real
>opinions about is marketing and the salesmen of the economies one of the
>most important parts of the economy.
>
>Is it not truly and magnificantly the real heart of capitalism...that has
>triumphed over all other world systems.
>
>It truly is a natural way of doing business, and this is the basis of all
>free enterprise..and all that our modern democracies stand for.
>
>All opinions invited..
>
>Respectfully
>
>Stephen
>
You need all components - top management, owners, customers,
marketing, financial, production or service personnel. Thinking one is
more important is narrow minded.


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 15th 03, 11:14 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:16:52 +0100, "Stephen"
> > wrote:
>
> >MARKETING.
> >
> >I ask the honorable gentlemen of this forum to honestly give their real
> >opinions about is marketing and the salesmen of the economies one of the
> >most important parts of the economy.
> >
> >Is it not truly and magnificantly the real heart of capitalism...that has
> >triumphed over all other world systems.
> >
> >It truly is a natural way of doing business, and this is the basis of all
> >free enterprise..and all that our modern democracies stand for.
> >
> >All opinions invited..
> >
> >Respectfully
> >
> >Stephen
> >
> You need all components - top management, owners, customers,
> marketing, financial, production or service personnel. Thinking one is
> more important is narrow minded.
>
I personally believe that business is composted of many different areas of
skill, some of those areas are more important than others, and some are
crucial and some are not, but there are a few areas which are equally
indespensible.

Peter Saxton
July 16th 03, 08:51 AM
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:14:30 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:

>
>Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...

>> You need all components - top management, owners, customers,
>> marketing, financial, production or service personnel. Thinking one is
>> more important is narrow minded.
>>
>I personally believe that business is composted of many different areas of
>skill, some of those areas are more important than others, and some are
>crucial and some are not, but there are a few areas which are equally
>indespensible.
>
Can you list them in your order of importance?


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 01:06 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:14:30 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> You need all components - top management, owners, customers,
> >> marketing, financial, production or service personnel. Thinking one is
> >> more important is narrow minded.
> >>
> >I personally believe that business is composted of many different areas
of
> >skill, some of those areas are more important than others, and some are
> >crucial and some are not, but there are a few areas which are equally
> >indespensible.
> >
> Can you list them in your order of importance?
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>

Tough Question.....

I'll try, however, please note it is purely subjective, and every business
person will have his or her own opinion....



1/ Product or Service is equal only in importance to selling that
product...for a profit.

Everything else is of secondary importance to that.


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Chris Game
July 17th 03, 12:06 PM
[heavy snipping]

Stephen GoldenGun said:

> Peter Saxton > wrote in message

> > Can you list them in your order of importance?

> Tough Question.....
>
> I'll try, however, please note it is purely subjective, and every
> business person will have his or her own opinion....
>
> 1/ Product or Service is equal only in importance to selling that
> product...for a profit.
>
> Everything else is of secondary importance to that.

All this 'order of importance' stuff is tripe. Even the toilet
cleaner in Houston contributed to getting Apollo to the moon; a fact
that most companies use to motivate their employees - entrepreneurs
shouldn't create 'classes of importance' for their workers, that way
lies conflict. Who would want to work in a place where only salesmen
were respected and rewarded? Apart from the salesmen obviously.

--
=============================================

Chris Game <[email protected]!yahoo!dotcodotuk>
=============================================

Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 01:55 PM
Chris Game > wrote in message
...
> [heavy snipping]
>
> Stephen GoldenGun said:
>
> > Peter Saxton > wrote in message
>
> > > Can you list them in your order of importance?
>
> > Tough Question.....
> >
> > I'll try, however, please note it is purely subjective, and every
> > business person will have his or her own opinion....
> >
> > 1/ Product or Service is equal only in importance to selling that
> > product...for a profit.
> >
> > Everything else is of secondary importance to that.
>
> All this 'order of importance' stuff is tripe. Even the toilet
> cleaner in Houston contributed to getting Apollo to the moon; a fact
> that most companies use to motivate their employees - entrepreneurs
> shouldn't create 'classes of importance' for their workers, that way
> lies conflict. Who would want to work in a place where only salesmen
> were respected and rewarded? Apart from the salesmen obviously.


Thats not the point, Peter was not asking who was the most valued employer,
he asked who'se function was the most imprtant, now I would say that the
toilet cleaner would not have stopped apollo getting to the moon one way or
another.

There are some functions that are more important than others, for
example....accountants are not very important, your cashflow would not stop
if you lost your accountants, maybe you would get in a bit of a financial
pickle, maybe even you would not be so efficient, but you could make do with
that problem......your business would nto stop functioning.....you could
still get through it.
>
> --
> =============================================
>
> Chris Game <[email protected]!yahoo!dotcodotuk>
> =============================================


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 06:08 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:55:22 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Chris Game > wrote in message
> ...
> >> [heavy snipping]
> >>
> >> All this 'order of importance' stuff is tripe. Even the toilet
> >> cleaner in Houston contributed to getting Apollo to the moon; a fact
> >> that most companies use to motivate their employees - entrepreneurs
> >> shouldn't create 'classes of importance' for their workers, that way
> >> lies conflict. Who would want to work in a place where only salesmen
> >> were respected and rewarded? Apart from the salesmen obviously.
> >
> >
> >Thats not the point, Peter was not asking who was the most valued
employer,
> >he asked who'se function was the most imprtant, now I would say that the
> >toilet cleaner would not have stopped apollo getting to the moon one way
or
> >another.
> >
> >There are some functions that are more important than others, for
> >example....accountants are not very important, your cashflow would not
stop
> >if you lost your accountants, maybe you would get in a bit of a financial
> >pickle, maybe even you would not be so efficient, but you could make do
with
> >that problem......your business would nto stop functioning.....you could
> >still get through it.
> >>
> So, you think it wouldnt be a serious matter if your customers werent
> chased to pay your sales invoiices?

You don't need an accountant to make sure you get paid!
>
> Or your purchase invoices were paid whether or not the goods or
> services had been received?

You don't need to be an accountant to pay your bills on time.
>
> Or you were making products at a loss?

That is what the owners of the business know all about. You don't need an
accountant to tell you that.
>
> This is without mentioning all the statutory requirements.

Do you think a business owner would not know about this I am not an
accountant, I am not a health and safety specialist, but I know where to get
all the info I know how to get it.

Besides I said that in order of importance, you can do without all that for
a while,,,but you can't do without any product, you can't do without people
selling that product...eg. customers paying you for it.

>
> How would your employees get paid?
>
> Wouldnt your company get wound up if you didnt produce statutory
> accounts?

Nope, not if you did them yourself....

Again I said "order of importance"..I am not saying you can allways do
without an accountant..but you could make do..etc.etc. you can use an
accountant for the very basic requirements.....you can even use temporary
accountants.

They are only in existence due to the fact that the business manufacturers a
product and sells that product...

you can have a business wihtout an accountant but you can't have a business
wihtout a product or orders for those products.

I think this is simple for anybody to understand what I am saying.
>
> If you didnt complete tax returns you would be assessed for too much
> tax and penalties.

I did'nt say that without all the other servcies you would be most
efficient, nor did I say it is desireable, I am listing them in order of
importance .
>
> Sometimes I feel you just say things for the sake of it. As if you are
> playing a game on here rather than live a real life.

I think that is very easy to say that.. The fact is that any point you raise
I defend what I say. I coudl say the same about you...

It is a fact Peter, when you are vocal, when you have strong opinions, in
life, there are those who just take issue for no other reason than they
don't like people who express their views so freely...

Do you disagree with this as well?? <g>

Some people are allways moaning, or will allways take issue or say something
negative or challenge a person who is quite vocal.....

Your not like that are you?
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 06:12 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 13:55:22 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Chris Game > wrote in message
> ...
> >> [heavy snipping]
> >>
> >> All this 'order of importance' stuff is tripe. Even the toilet
> >> cleaner in Houston contributed to getting Apollo to the moon; a fact
> >> that most companies use to motivate their employees - entrepreneurs
> >> shouldn't create 'classes of importance' for their workers, that way
> >> lies conflict. Who would want to work in a place where only salesmen
> >> were respected and rewarded? Apart from the salesmen obviously.
> >
> >
> >Thats not the point, Peter was not asking who was the most valued
employer,
> >he asked who'se function was the most imprtant, now I would say that the
> >toilet cleaner would not have stopped apollo getting to the moon one way
or
> >another.
> >
> >There are some functions that are more important than others, for
> >example....accountants are not very important, your cashflow would not
stop
> >if you lost your accountants, maybe you would get in a bit of a financial
> >pickle, maybe even you would not be so efficient, but you could make do
with
> >that problem......your business would nto stop functioning.....you could
> >still get through it.
> >>
> So, you think it wouldnt be a serious matter if your customers werent
> chased to pay your sales invoiices?
>
> Or your purchase invoices were paid whether or not the goods or
> services had been received?
>
> Or you were making products at a loss?
>
> This is without mentioning all the statutory requirements.
>
> How would your employees get paid?
>
> Wouldnt your company get wound up if you didnt produce statutory
> accounts?
>
> If you didnt complete tax returns you would be assessed for too much
> tax and penalties.
>
> Sometimes I feel you just say things for the sake of it. As if you are
> playing a game on here rather than live a real life.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>

If you had any kind of understanding how much valuable information can be
exchanged via mediums like this or just chatting with people..etc.etc. you
would be AMAZED I think.

A couple of months ago, I was contemplating "buying to let" properties. Do
you know I recieved some information via this forum intself that was advice
given by people who had not only done the general thing, but had done very
very similar things, and I don't know where or how I could have met someone
who in person who could have given me, or who would have given me that
information....

You imagine if someone was to see me face to face, then they are not going
to let me know their own experiences as they might see me as a
competitor...but through the internet you can hear about different peoples
opinion..

Now that information helped me formulate and improve my business
plan...."fools act in haste and repent at leisure" you should know that.




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Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 06:53 PM
Chris Game > wrote in message
...
> Stephen GoldenGun said:
>
> > Thats not the point, Peter was not asking who was the most valued
> > employer, he asked who'se function was the most imprtant, now I
> > would say that the toilet cleaner would not have stopped apollo
> > getting to the moon one way or another.
>
> No this is more tripe. It hardly matters what the job titles are,
> there are many and varied tasks to be done in business and everyone
> who performs those tasks contributes to the success or failure of the
> business, even the toilet cleaners. If you go around telling your
> salesmen they are more important that the others, you're asking for
> trouble.
>
> In fact in most factories the lack of clean toilets will bring things
> to a complete halt rather more quickly than a lack of salesmen would!

Clean toilets are essentials, however it is easy to get the workers maning
the products or the managers to clean the toilets after them, or to take it
in turns. Needs must. I'm talking about a situation where for some reason
they have to go without! Such as economic hardship etc.etc. extreme
competition etc.etc.

Then that is what will happen, even the workforce will start cleaning their
own factory, etc.etc.etc.
>
> --
> =============================================
>
> Chris Game <[email protected]!yahoo!dotcodotuk>
> =============================================


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Peter Saxton
July 17th 03, 09:20 PM
You seem to be saying that someone else can do accountancy functions,
eg. making sure you are selling a product at a profit.

Someone else can do the selling function so - using your logic you
don't need salespeople.

Using your arguments I don't see how you can say sales is more
important than production. If you dont have a product then salespeople
don't have anything to sell. At least if you don't have salespeople
you can sell products if someone sees the products and wants one.


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 11:01 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> You seem to be saying that someone else can do accountancy functions,
> eg. making sure you are selling a product at a profit.
>
> Someone else can do the selling function so - using your logic you
> don't need salespeople.



>
> Using your arguments I don't see how you can say sales is more
> important than production.

It is difficult to reply to you when you don't read or dont' seem to
understand what I've said. You seem to have a habit of either deliberately
misinterperating what I say, or twisting it...

I said clearly that the two most important aspects in a business are 1/
Production and 2/ Sales

I said clearly again it is "my opinion".

Why are you trying to argue this point when I have said clearly it is "my
opinion"...I am not asking you to agree, but I was asked for my opinion....

If you dont have a product then salespeople
> don't have anything to sell. At least if you don't have salespeople
> you can sell products if someone sees the products and wants one.

Your going around in circles..read my post again..I said production and
sales are equally important..

I would appreciate if in future you try to take issue with whatever I'm
saying that you read it clearly. Otherwise it is wasting my time.
Cheers
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


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Peter Saxton
July 17th 03, 11:48 PM
On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:55:40 +0100, "Stephen"
> wrote:


>Without a product or service their is no business, without business there
>are not jobs and no wealth in the economy. No money for good schools, for
>hospitols none of that which we take for granted.
>
I think you are confused.

Without a product or service there could never be schools or hospitals
because they both provide services. Why say without products or
services there would not be things that provide products or services?
Is a school or hospital really a school or hospital if it doesnt
provide any services?


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 11:52 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:41:21 +0100, "Stephen"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >Georgy!!!! There is really nooo need to be so negative about
> >telemarketers....
> >
> <Rubbish snipped>
>
> >So if you get a telephone call from me....don't close down your window of
> >opportunity George......otherwise you may just be slamming the door to
more
> >profits.
> >>
> >
> If I listened to the start of this I would end the conversation
> immediately.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>

Well it would save you from continually posting questions that have already
been answered, and would save me wasting my time would'nt it. Lol


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 11:57 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:01:58 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> You seem to be saying that someone else can do accountancy functions,
> >> eg. making sure you are selling a product at a profit.
> >>
> >> Someone else can do the selling function so - using your logic you
> >> don't need salespeople.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Using your arguments I don't see how you can say sales is more
> >> important than production.
> >
> >It is difficult to reply to you when you don't read or dont' seem to
> >understand what I've said. You seem to have a habit of either
deliberately
> >misinterperating what I say, or twisting it...
> >
> >I said clearly that the two most important aspects in a business are 1/
> >Production and 2/ Sales
> >
> >I said clearly again it is "my opinion".
> >
> >Why are you trying to argue this point when I have said clearly it is "my
> >opinion"...I am not asking you to agree, but I was asked for my
opinion....
> >
> >If you dont have a product then salespeople
> >> don't have anything to sell. At least if you don't have salespeople
> >> you can sell products if someone sees the products and wants one.
> >
> >Your going around in circles..read my post again..I said production and
> >sales are equally important..
> >
> >I would appreciate if in future you try to take issue with whatever I'm
> >saying that you read it clearly. Otherwise it is wasting my time.
> >Cheers
> >>
>
> On 5 July you said:
>
> "I am asking is there nobody else who believes that the sales people
> are the most important part of a working economic system."

Who are you trying to kid? That was not in the last few postings....that was
out of context...your snipping things and posting them entirely out of
context.

What is your point? I said clearly above in response to someone else..that
in order of importance is manufacturing and selling.........

Your trying to make out I have said something which I did'nt!

Its hard to see that your doing anything but trying to cause a
reaction..lol...some people would say you sound like a troll...I would not
disagree at the moment.

Are you trying to pick an argument? By continually not accepting what I say?
Then cross examine every little detail LOL until you can make it sound like
how you wish?

By selectively posting and snipping eh?



It was clear where I was asked what do I think are the order of importance
in a business.

I clearly said Manufacturing and Selling.

So whats your point?




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Stephen GoldenGun
July 17th 03, 11:58 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:01:58 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> You seem to be saying that someone else can do accountancy functions,
> >> eg. making sure you are selling a product at a profit.
> >>
> >> Someone else can do the selling function so - using your logic you
> >> don't need salespeople.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Using your arguments I don't see how you can say sales is more
> >> important than production.
> >
> >It is difficult to reply to you when you don't read or dont' seem to
> >understand what I've said. You seem to have a habit of either
deliberately
> >misinterperating what I say, or twisting it...
> >
> >I said clearly that the two most important aspects in a business are 1/
> >Production and 2/ Sales
> >
> >I said clearly again it is "my opinion".
> >
> >Why are you trying to argue this point when I have said clearly it is "my
> >opinion"...I am not asking you to agree, but I was asked for my
opinion....
> >
> >If you dont have a product then salespeople
> >> don't have anything to sell. At least if you don't have salespeople
> >> you can sell products if someone sees the products and wants one.
> >
> >Your going around in circles..read my post again..I said production and
> >sales are equally important..
> >
> >I would appreciate if in future you try to take issue with whatever I'm
> >saying that you read it clearly. Otherwise it is wasting my time.
> >Cheers
> >>
>
> On 5 July you said:
>
> "I am asking is there nobody else who believes that the sales people
> are the most important part of a working economic system."
>
> Did I not read that or did I not understand that?
>
> Have I deliberately misinterpreted or twisted it?
>
> Now you have said: "I said clearly that the two most important aspects
> in a business are 1/ Production and 2/ Sales"
>
> I thought you'd said clearly on 5 July that sales people are the most
> important part.
>
> You were asked for your opinion? You started this thread!
>
> I am going round in circles? You said production and sales are equally
> important.did you?
>
> Or did you say that sales people are the most important?
>
> Which did you say?
>
> Was it both? Or was it anything to deny you are wrong?
>
> Did I read it clearly?
>
> It certainly seems like you are wasting your time if you contradict
> yourself.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>

I would have expected better behavior than time wasting attempts to score
points, cause thats how your posts seem to me, they contain nothing but
silly little snipes and digs at me. not that I mind but it makes you look
like your a troll..


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 12:03 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:55:40 +0100, "Stephen"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >Without a product or service their is no business, without business there
> >are not jobs and no wealth in the economy. No money for good schools, for
> >hospitols none of that which we take for granted.
> >
> I think you are confused.

I think you have some kind of obsession with whatever I say! LOL cause you
seem to have gone back in time and tried to pick up on any little thing I've
said! Why's that? LOL I am not at all confused.

You never make any points, you just try to seem to pick pick pick at
whatever anybody sais..Why don't you make some valid points then? Instead of
trying to find fault, why don't you give a difference of opinion eh?

>
> Without a product or service there could never be schools or hospitals
> because they both provide services.




Why say without products or
> services there would not be things that provide products or services?
> Is a school or hospital really a school or hospital if it doesnt
> provide any services?
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>

What are you talking about? Schools and Hospitols are provided from the
profits of commercial enterprise.

Try and see what would happen if sales and production stopped in any
economy!


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Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 12:30 AM
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:50:04 +0100, Gareth Kitchener
> wrote:

>George Hills said:
>
>>Gareth Kitchener > wrote:
>>
>>> Depends on the product. In some cases, it is necessary to convince
>>> the customer that they need the product in the first place.
>>
>>If they need to be convinced that they need it, they don't *need* it.
>
>Depends what you mean by "need". Arguably you don't *need* anything
>apart from food, drink & air!
>
>Do you *need* to make provision for your retirement?
>Do you *need* a savings plan to put your 8-year-old child through
>university?
>Or do you *need* to spend the money down the pub instead? ;-)

Why is it necessary to convince the customer that they need the
product? Can't they make their own mind up independently?


Peter Saxton from London

Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 12:45 AM
On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:29:07 +0100, "Stephen"
> wrote:

>> Can you tell us what you do for a living?
>
>
>Thats really an unfair question, it does'nt matter what I do for a living, I
>am really talking about deep principles of our economic wellbeing as a
>country and a society.
>
Why is it an unfair question?


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 12:46 AM
of?
> >
> >How about marketing to persuade Americans to buy British Steel, even
though
> >they can get Russian steel cheaper, how about the marketing men who go
out
> >there and bring home the jobs....and export GEAT british products like
> >Branston Pickle...Heinz Baked Beans (one of the most popular exports in
the
> >world), How about British Made Furniture...all these other products and
> >services, how about the marketing and branding that is done to build up
the
> >the image and status of British Products..and create jobs, and protect
> >industries....
> >
> >All the money the government spends on promoting British Jobs by
exporting
> >our great products abroad..
> >
> >what about those johnathan, I think thats the kind of thing Gareth was
> >talking about.
> >
> Why does anyone need convincing they need them? Isn't it sufficient to
> let people know it is available?
>
> A few weeks ago someone phoned me asking me to advertise on Lycos. I
> didn't think it was worth it and told him but the guy droned on for
> several minutes but when I told him I still didnt want it he droned on
> again. He phoned several times and every time I gave my reasons for
> not wanting to advertise on Lycos and corrected his lies but he kept
> droning on. I said I couldnt waste any more time and put the phone
> down. I'm not saying everyone is like him but he certainly gave the
> impression it was only necessary to "convince" me and the sale would
> be his.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>



I wonder if he called you back three times on purpose or not? I would
suspect that the average person would get really annoyed at being phoned
again with the same product?

I'm surprised you did not tell him where to get off for phoning you twice!
let alone three times.

I can't see thats clever selling? If you gave him enough time for him to say
his piece then he should have been grateful for that and taken your response
as a definite no.


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Gareth Kitchener
July 18th 03, 12:52 AM
Peter Saxton said:

>On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:50:04 +0100, Gareth Kitchener
> wrote:
>
>>George Hills said:
>>
>>>Gareth Kitchener > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Depends on the product. In some cases, it is necessary to convince
>>>> the customer that they need the product in the first place.
>>>
>>>If they need to be convinced that they need it, they don't *need* it.
>>
>>Depends what you mean by "need". Arguably you don't *need* anything
>>apart from food, drink & air!
>>
>>Do you *need* to make provision for your retirement?
>>Do you *need* a savings plan to put your 8-year-old child through
>>university?
>>Or do you *need* to spend the money down the pub instead? ;-)
>
>Why is it necessary to convince the customer that they need the
>product? Can't they make their own mind up independently?
>

Not if they are unaware of the benefits of the product.



--
Gareth Kitchener
Bedfordshire, England
http://www.garethkitchener.org.uk

Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 12:52 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:29:07 +0100, "Stephen"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Can you tell us what you do for a living?
> >
> >
> >Thats really an unfair question, it does'nt matter what I do for a
living, I
> >am really talking about deep principles of our economic wellbeing as a
> >country and a society.
> >
> Why is it an unfair question?
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


Well unfair because its not related to the subject matter, and more to the
point he did'nt say why he wanted to know that information, anyway it was of
no matter as I explained what I did..


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Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 02:24 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:06:23 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:

>
>Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:53:10 +0100, "Stephen"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Thats not marketing is it! Thats just what it is. Spam!!!! Spam is not
>> >marketing, and I do not think that intrusive or invasive means of selling
>> >are very good or helpful.
>> >
>> Why do you say spam is not marketing?
>>
>>
>> Peter Saxton from London
>>
>
>What kind of question is that? Are you drunk or something? If your not
>trying to cause an argument or pick an argument or just be disagreeable for
>the sake of it I sure as heck don't know what is LOL....your a real little
>wind up merchant..or thats how you come across to me anyway...lol.
>
>I have yet to see you initiate a healthy difference of opinion and open up
>the conversation, instead you nit pick nit pick nit pick ...like a nagging
>old women....lol
>
>Anyway...ok for you peter I will specially rephrase this..
>
>Spam is not considered marketing because it is not even at the level of Non
>Solicted Commercial Emails..which is different than spam.........
>
>Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam is
>allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted individuals....it
>is not welcome and outright hostilities exist towards it, it is
>banned....and in some states it is outlawed...
>
>I consider nothing that is remotely near being outlawed as marketing..
>
You may do that but you are wrong. You can't re-write the rules of
logic to avoid being thought of as talking rubbish. You are wrong by
saying spam is not marketing. Admit the obvious.


Peter Saxton from London

Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 02:26 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:52:13 +0100, Gareth Kitchener
> wrote:

>Peter Saxton said:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:50:04 +0100, Gareth Kitchener
> wrote:
>>
>>>George Hills said:
>>>
>>>>Gareth Kitchener > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Depends on the product. In some cases, it is necessary to convince
>>>>> the customer that they need the product in the first place.
>>>>
>>>>If they need to be convinced that they need it, they don't *need* it.
>>>
>>>Depends what you mean by "need". Arguably you don't *need* anything
>>>apart from food, drink & air!
>>>
>>>Do you *need* to make provision for your retirement?
>>>Do you *need* a savings plan to put your 8-year-old child through
>>>university?
>>>Or do you *need* to spend the money down the pub instead? ;-)
>>
>>Why is it necessary to convince the customer that they need the
>>product? Can't they make their own mind up independently?
>>
>
>Not if they are unaware of the benefits of the product.

Tell them the benefits in a mailing and if they still dont want to buy
it accept it. Don't phone people and nag until the phone is put down
on you.


Peter Saxton from London

Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 02:29 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:46:06 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:


>I wonder if he called you back three times on purpose or not? I would
>suspect that the average person would get really annoyed at being phoned
>again with the same product?
>
He did. He thought I'd change my mind. The second time he called it
was after he'd sent an email giving details.

>I'm surprised you did not tell him where to get off for phoning you twice!
>let alone three times.
>
>I can't see thats clever selling? If you gave him enough time for him to say
>his piece then he should have been grateful for that and taken your response
>as a definite no.

It's not clever selling. I'm sure people here wouldnt be so anti some
forms of marketing if they hadn't been regularly lied to by sales
people.


Peter Saxton from London

Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 02:35 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:52:25 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:

>
>Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:29:07 +0100, "Stephen"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >> Can you tell us what you do for a living?
>> >
>> >
>> >Thats really an unfair question, it does'nt matter what I do for a
>living, I
>> >am really talking about deep principles of our economic wellbeing as a
>> >country and a society.
>> >
>> Why is it an unfair question?
>>
>>
>> Peter Saxton from London
>>
>
>
>Well unfair because its not related to the subject matter, and more to the
>point he did'nt say why he wanted to know that information, anyway it was of
>no matter as I explained what I did..
>
If someone asked me what I did for a living I would tell them. I would
see no reason for it being "unfair". Why isnt it related to the
subject matter? The thread is about different functions in business.
It seems to me what you do for a living is related to that.

Why should he have to say why he wanted the information. It's relevant
to the thread so it's safe to assume that it's about that. Otherwise
everyone should preface every question with why they wanted to know
the information.

Paranoia rules in the GoldenGun house/flat/bedsit!


Peter Saxton from London

Peter Saxton
July 18th 03, 02:38 AM
On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:57:39 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:

>
>Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
>> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:01:58 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> You seem to be saying that someone else can do accountancy functions,
>> >> eg. making sure you are selling a product at a profit.
>> >>
>> >> Someone else can do the selling function so - using your logic you
>> >> don't need salespeople.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Using your arguments I don't see how you can say sales is more
>> >> important than production.
>> >
>> >It is difficult to reply to you when you don't read or dont' seem to
>> >understand what I've said. You seem to have a habit of either
>deliberately
>> >misinterperating what I say, or twisting it...
>> >
>> >I said clearly that the two most important aspects in a business are 1/
>> >Production and 2/ Sales
>> >
>> >I said clearly again it is "my opinion".
>> >
>> >Why are you trying to argue this point when I have said clearly it is "my
>> >opinion"...I am not asking you to agree, but I was asked for my
>opinion....
>> >
>> >If you dont have a product then salespeople
>> >> don't have anything to sell. At least if you don't have salespeople
>> >> you can sell products if someone sees the products and wants one.
>> >
>> >Your going around in circles..read my post again..I said production and
>> >sales are equally important..
>> >
>> >I would appreciate if in future you try to take issue with whatever I'm
>> >saying that you read it clearly. Otherwise it is wasting my time.
>> >Cheers
>> >>
>>
>> On 5 July you said:
>>
>> "I am asking is there nobody else who believes that the sales people
>> are the most important part of a working economic system."
>
>Who are you trying to kid? That was not in the last few postings....that was
>out of context...your snipping things and posting them entirely out of
>context.
>
>What is your point? I said clearly above in response to someone else..that
>in order of importance is manufacturing and selling.........
>
>Your trying to make out I have said something which I did'nt!
>
>Its hard to see that your doing anything but trying to cause a
>reaction..lol...some people would say you sound like a troll...I would not
>disagree at the moment.
>
>Are you trying to pick an argument? By continually not accepting what I say?
>Then cross examine every little detail LOL until you can make it sound like
>how you wish?
>
>By selectively posting and snipping eh?
>
>
>
>It was clear where I was asked what do I think are the order of importance
>in a business.
>
>I clearly said Manufacturing and Selling.
>
>So whats your point?
>
Does this mean you are denying that you believe that sales people
are the most important part of a working economic system?


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 04:15 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:03:03 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 15:55:40 +0100, "Stephen"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Without a product or service their is no business, without business
there
> >> >are not jobs and no wealth in the economy. No money for good schools,
for
> >> >hospitols none of that which we take for granted.
> >> >
> >> I think you are confused.
> >
> >I think you have some kind of obsession with whatever I say! LOL cause
you
> >seem to have gone back in time and tried to pick up on any little thing
I've
> >said! Why's that? LOL I am not at all confused.
> >
> >You never make any points, you just try to seem to pick pick pick at
> >whatever anybody sais..Why don't you make some valid points then? Instead
of
> >trying to find fault, why don't you give a difference of opinion eh?
> >
> >>
> >> Without a product or service there could never be schools or hospitals
> >> because they both provide services.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Why say without products or
> >> services there would not be things that provide products or services?
> >> Is a school or hospital really a school or hospital if it doesnt
> >> provide any services?
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Saxton from London
> >>
> >
> >What are you talking about? Schools and Hospitols are provided from the
> >profits of commercial enterprise.
> >
> >Try and see what would happen if sales and production stopped in any
> >economy!
> >
> Now you really are talking rubbish. Many schools and hospitals are run
> with a view to making a profit.

Generally they are not, I am referring to the public services, you know
perfectly well thats what I meant. your being fecisious..or however you
spell it.
>
> My whole point was that you were saying something akin to "if there
> were no wheels there'd be nothing with wheels on them"!

Too often peter your points get obscured by details that are irrelevant and
by you not reading whats previously been written or taking things out of
context.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 04:16 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:06:23 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:53:10 +0100, "Stephen"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Thats not marketing is it! Thats just what it is. Spam!!!! Spam is not
> >> >marketing, and I do not think that intrusive or invasive means of
selling
> >> >are very good or helpful.
> >> >
> >> Why do you say spam is not marketing?
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Saxton from London
> >>
> >
> >What kind of question is that? Are you drunk or something? If your not
> >trying to cause an argument or pick an argument or just be disagreeable
for
> >the sake of it I sure as heck don't know what is LOL....your a real
little
> >wind up merchant..or thats how you come across to me anyway...lol.
> >
> >I have yet to see you initiate a healthy difference of opinion and open
up
> >the conversation, instead you nit pick nit pick nit pick ...like a
nagging
> >old women....lol
> >
> >Anyway...ok for you peter I will specially rephrase this..
> >
> >Spam is not considered marketing because it is not even at the level of
Non
> >Solicted Commercial Emails..which is different than spam.........
> >
> >Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam is
> >allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted
individuals....it
> >is not welcome and outright hostilities exist towards it, it is
> >banned....and in some states it is outlawed...
> >
> >I consider nothing that is remotely near being outlawed as marketing..
> >
> You may do that but you are wrong. You can't re-write the rules of
> logic to avoid being thought of as talking rubbish. You are wrong by
> saying spam is not marketing. Admit the obvious.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


Ok if you want to think spam is marketing then you go ahead .....(your quite
entertaining) even if your views are quite bizaar


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 04:17 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:46:06 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >I wonder if he called you back three times on purpose or not? I would
> >suspect that the average person would get really annoyed at being phoned
> >again with the same product?
> >
> He did. He thought I'd change my mind. The second time he called it
> was after he'd sent an email giving details.
>
> >I'm surprised you did not tell him where to get off for phoning you
twice!
> >let alone three times.
> >
> >I can't see thats clever selling? If you gave him enough time for him to
say
> >his piece then he should have been grateful for that and taken your
response
> >as a definite no.
>
> It's not clever selling. I'm sure people here wouldnt be so anti some
> forms of marketing if they hadn't been regularly lied to by sales
> people.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


It is the same with the financial industry, everybody got sick of all the
lies and rubbish that now it has tarnished the industry as a whole.


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 04:22 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:52:25 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 18:29:07 +0100, "Stephen"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Can you tell us what you do for a living?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Thats really an unfair question, it does'nt matter what I do for a
> >living, I
> >> >am really talking about deep principles of our economic wellbeing as a
> >> >country and a society.
> >> >
> >> Why is it an unfair question?
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Saxton from London
> >>
> >
> >
> >Well unfair because its not related to the subject matter, and more to
the
> >point he did'nt say why he wanted to know that information, anyway it was
of
> >no matter as I explained what I did..
> >
> If someone asked me what I did for a living I would tell them. I would
> see no reason for it being "unfair". Why isnt it related to the
> subject matter? The thread is about different functions in business.
> It seems to me what you do for a living is related to that.
>
> Why should he have to say why he wanted the information. It's relevant
> to the thread so it's safe to assume that it's about that. Otherwise
> everyone should preface every question with why they wanted to know
> the information.

Why should he not? How do you know it was relevant? If someone asks
something in a certain manner without explanation...of course there is no
way it is necessary to tell someone...LOL Why do you think you own the rule
book to dictating who should say what..

You like to think you know whats best for other people I reckon <g>

Again you amaze me, the point is obsolete, I already told him in great
detail what I did...your behind the times old chap..Get with the
program.LOL...

How can I be paranoid? your a bizaar man Peter the accountant?
>
> Paranoia rules in the GoldenGun house/flat/bedsit!

I think you like arguing...thats what I think about you! You seem a real old
fusspot...fussing about such small minutae, that are completely irrelevant
to the general meaning of the thread...don't take offense , but maybe thats
one of your personal qualities..

I have met many dear charming little fusspot, nagging types of characters
who allways like things done their way, or they will argue every irrelevant
point in the book, quite often they are amazingly good with figures.

What exactly do you do for a living?
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 04:24 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:57:39 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 23:01:58 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> You seem to be saying that someone else can do accountancy
functions,
> >> >> eg. making sure you are selling a product at a profit.
> >> >>
> >> >> Someone else can do the selling function so - using your logic you
> >> >> don't need salespeople.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Using your arguments I don't see how you can say sales is more
> >> >> important than production.
> >> >
> >> >It is difficult to reply to you when you don't read or dont' seem to
> >> >understand what I've said. You seem to have a habit of either
> >deliberately
> >> >misinterperating what I say, or twisting it...
> >> >
> >> >I said clearly that the two most important aspects in a business are
1/
> >> >Production and 2/ Sales
> >> >
> >> >I said clearly again it is "my opinion".
> >> >
> >> >Why are you trying to argue this point when I have said clearly it is
"my
> >> >opinion"...I am not asking you to agree, but I was asked for my
> >opinion....
> >> >
> >> >If you dont have a product then salespeople
> >> >> don't have anything to sell. At least if you don't have salespeople
> >> >> you can sell products if someone sees the products and wants one.
> >> >
> >> >Your going around in circles..read my post again..I said production
and
> >> >sales are equally important..
> >> >
> >> >I would appreciate if in future you try to take issue with whatever
I'm
> >> >saying that you read it clearly. Otherwise it is wasting my time.
> >> >Cheers
> >> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 July you said:
> >>
> >> "I am asking is there nobody else who believes that the sales people
> >> are the most important part of a working economic system."
> >
> >Who are you trying to kid? That was not in the last few postings....that
was
> >out of context...your snipping things and posting them entirely out of
> >context.
> >
> >What is your point? I said clearly above in response to someone
else..that
> >in order of importance is manufacturing and selling.........
> >
> >Your trying to make out I have said something which I did'nt!
> >
> >Its hard to see that your doing anything but trying to cause a
> >reaction..lol...some people would say you sound like a troll...I would
not
> >disagree at the moment.
> >
> >Are you trying to pick an argument? By continually not accepting what I
say?
> >Then cross examine every little detail LOL until you can make it sound
like
> >how you wish?
> >
> >By selectively posting and snipping eh?
> >
> >
> >
> >It was clear where I was asked what do I think are the order of
importance
> >in a business.
> >
> >I clearly said Manufacturing and Selling.
> >
> >So whats your point?
> >
> Does this mean you are denying that you believe that sales people
> are the most important part of a working economic system?
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>

Your trying to bait me.....LOL....but I'm bored with it now...I know you
can't possible be serious, not even a remote chance LOL...

Refer to the previous postings for your asnwers..they are all their..lol



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Gareth Kitchener
July 18th 03, 08:57 AM
Peter Saxton said:

>>>Why is it necessary to convince the customer that they need the
>>>product? Can't they make their own mind up independently?
>>>
>>
>>Not if they are unaware of the benefits of the product.
>
>Tell them the benefits in a mailing and if they still dont want to buy
>it accept it. Don't phone people and nag until the phone is put down
>on you.

I agree 100% - pestering people at home should be banned.



--
Gareth Kitchener
Bedfordshire, England
http://www.garethkitchener.org.uk

Jonathan Bryce
July 18th 03, 10:51 PM
Stephen wrote:

> That man who I cold called today, could have been saved quite a bit of
> money from the particular product I was selling today!!!
>
> Mega cheap price for my product but MEGA BIG SAVINGS TO HIS BUSINESS!!!!!
>
> He slammed the phone down on his profit....
>
> He slammed the phone down on massive savings..
>
> He slammed the phone down on opportunity
>
> and he closed his door of luck when he slammed the phone down on me..

Yeah rrrrrrrrrrrright

Jonathan Bryce
July 18th 03, 10:53 PM
Stephen wrote:

> The only answer is I have to develop the anatomy of a rhinocerous....in as
> far as having "thick skin"......so i don't take it personally the abuse
> and insults..hurled..and phones slammed....

The answer I have is to L I S T E N T O Y O U R C U S T O M E R

You know, the customer is always right and stuff like that.


If the customer says nuisance calls are objectionable, then nuisance calls
are objectionable.

Jonathan Bryce
July 18th 03, 10:59 PM
Stephen wrote:

> How do you work out that the chinese currency is devalued? Devalued in
> relation to what?

http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1730909

Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 11:04 PM
Jonathan Bryce > wrote in message
...
> Stephen wrote:
>
> > The only answer is I have to develop the anatomy of a rhinocerous....in
as
> > far as having "thick skin"......so i don't take it personally the abuse
> > and insults..hurled..and phones slammed....
>
> The answer I have is to L I S T E N T O Y O U R C U S T O M E R
>
> You know, the customer is always right and stuff like that.
>
>
> If the customer says nuisance calls are objectionable, then nuisance calls
> are objectionable.

Yes, did you read the story on here about someone getting telephoned "three
times" from someone who was selling advertising for Lycos! I just wondered
if that chap got any extra sales for being so persistent. Surely it would
just annoy so many people that if they had any interest at all it would have
evaporated.


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 11:04 PM
Jonathan Bryce > wrote in message
...
> Stephen wrote:
>
> > That man who I cold called today, could have been saved quite a bit of
> > money from the particular product I was selling today!!!
> >
> > Mega cheap price for my product but MEGA BIG SAVINGS TO HIS
BUSINESS!!!!!
> >
> > He slammed the phone down on his profit....
> >
> > He slammed the phone down on massive savings..
> >
> > He slammed the phone down on opportunity
> >
> > and he closed his door of luck when he slammed the phone down on me..
>
> Yeah rrrrrrrrrrrright

Ok ok mild humour attack..and slight exageration..


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Jonathan Bryce
July 18th 03, 11:09 PM
Stephen wrote:

> Ok..I did'nt know that...but we have so many different inventions...we
> probably invented the wheel.

No, the wheel was invented by an Australian in 2001.
http://www.ipmenu.com/archive/AUI_2001100012.pdf

Jonathan Bryce
July 18th 03, 11:18 PM
Stephen GoldenGun wrote:

> Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam is
> allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted
> individuals....it is not welcome and outright hostilities exist towards
> it, it is banned....and in some states it is outlawed...

It is intended to encourage me to buy something, so it is marketing in my
book.

Stephen GoldenGun
July 18th 03, 11:20 PM
Jonathan Bryce > wrote in message
...
> Stephen GoldenGun wrote:
>
> > Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam is
> > allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted
> > individuals....it is not welcome and outright hostilities exist towards
> > it, it is banned....and in some states it is outlawed...
>
> It is intended to encourage me to buy something, so it is marketing in my
> book.

Well I suppose you could say that flyposting is "marketing" as well, ok I
suppose it is as you put it in such simplistic terms, I suppose I was
considering marketing something better than that! I suppose I was placing
marketing in the boundaries of what most people call "decent and acceptable
practice" I suppose I was not wishing to give "spam" credibility, as it
really really costs businesses alot of money.
I have read that people have to deal with so much spam at
work..surprisingly...the strange thing is..I don't get so much spam..and I
have used this email address for ages on these newsnet forums....
Unlike others, I don't bother to put some kind of anti email harvesting
address..so only get about two or three per day and those mainly go into my
bulk folder mail...yahoo are quite good like that.


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Jonathan Bryce
July 18th 03, 11:41 PM
Stephen GoldenGun wrote:

>> No, the wheel was invented by an Australian in 2001.
>> http://www.ipmenu.com/archive/AUI_2001100012.pdf
>
> This has to be an absolute joke surely. I mean no disrespect to
> Australians, but surely the wheel was invented in ancient egypt or some
> such "cradle of civilisation" location.

Not really. The Australian patent office really did grant a patent for the
wheel.

It won the IGNoble prize for technology.
http://www.improb.com/ig/ig-pastwinners.html

Stephen GoldenGun
July 19th 03, 12:36 AM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 00:06:23 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Peter Saxton > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 00:53:10 +0100, "Stephen"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Thats not marketing is it! Thats just what it is. Spam!!!! Spam is not
> >> >marketing, and I do not think that intrusive or invasive means of
selling
> >> >are very good or helpful.
> >> >
> >> Why do you say spam is not marketing?
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter Saxton from London
> >>
> >
> >What kind of question is that? Are you drunk or something? If your not
> >trying to cause an argument or pick an argument or just be disagreeable
for
> >the sake of it I sure as heck don't know what is LOL....your a real
little
> >wind up merchant..or thats how you come across to me anyway...lol.
> >
> >I have yet to see you initiate a healthy difference of opinion and open
up
> >the conversation, instead you nit pick nit pick nit pick ...like a
nagging
> >old women....lol
> >
> >Anyway...ok for you peter I will specially rephrase this..
> >
> >Spam is not considered marketing because it is not even at the level of
Non
> >Solicted Commercial Emails..which is different than spam.........
> >
> >Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam is
> >allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted
individuals....it
> >is not welcome and outright hostilities exist towards it, it is
> >banned....and in some states it is outlawed...
> >
> >I consider nothing that is remotely near being outlawed as marketing..
> >
> You may do that but you are wrong. You can't re-write the rules of
> logic to avoid being thought of as talking rubbish. You are wrong by
> saying spam is not marketing. Admit the obvious.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


Peter, are you really an accountant as you claim to be? If your a real
accountant then why are you not having your own office? Why do you work from
home? I thought most good accountants had their own office away from their
home with a professional image! Or are you a book keeper with ideas above
his station? <g>


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Stephen GoldenGun
July 19th 03, 02:19 AM
Jonathan Bryce > wrote in message
...
> Stephen GoldenGun wrote:
>
> >> No, the wheel was invented by an Australian in 2001.
> >> http://www.ipmenu.com/archive/AUI_2001100012.pdf
> >
> > This has to be an absolute joke surely. I mean no disrespect to
> > Australians, but surely the wheel was invented in ancient egypt or some
> > such "cradle of civilisation" location.
>
> Not really. The Australian patent office really did grant a patent for
the
> wheel.
>
> It won the IGNoble prize for technology.
> http://www.improb.com/ig/ig-pastwinners.html

I did see the site actually, that is rather good..lol


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Peter Saxton
July 19th 03, 09:01 AM
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:20:56 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:

>
>Jonathan Bryce > wrote in message
...
>> Stephen GoldenGun wrote:
>>
>> > Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam is
>> > allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted
>> > individuals....it is not welcome and outright hostilities exist towards
>> > it, it is banned....and in some states it is outlawed...
>>
>> It is intended to encourage me to buy something, so it is marketing in my
>> book.
>
>Well I suppose you could say that flyposting is "marketing" as well, ok I
>suppose it is as you put it in such simplistic terms, I suppose I was
>considering marketing something better than that! I suppose I was placing
>marketing in the boundaries of what most people call "decent and acceptable
>practice" I suppose I was not wishing to give "spam" credibility, as it
>really really costs businesses alot of money.
>I have read that people have to deal with so much spam at
>work..surprisingly...the strange thing is..I don't get so much spam..and I
>have used this email address for ages on these newsnet forums....
>Unlike others, I don't bother to put some kind of anti email harvesting
>address..so only get about two or three per day and those mainly go into my
>bulk folder mail...yahoo are quite good like that.
>
2 or 3 per day?

Maybe spammers don't take yahoo addresses seriously either.

I get more than 100 spams a day and I use McAfee SpamKiller to keep
them out of my inbox. This means that most urgent emails can be dealt
with quickly and then I can review the spam folder to see if there is
anything useful. Glancing through the headers and addresses can be
done pretty quickly since the headers are always designed to make it
look like something interesting and a genuine email is more sensible.


Peter Saxton from London

Peter Saxton
July 19th 03, 09:16 AM
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:36:22 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:

>Peter, are you really an accountant as you claim to be? If your a real
>accountant then why are you not having your own office? Why do you work from
>home? I thought most good accountants had their own office away from their
>home with a professional image! Or are you a book keeper with ideas above
>his station? <g>
>
Thanks for making that point. It sums up what people like you are
like. Desperate to have an image but having no substance.

I've actually just had an extension built on the side of my house. Now
I have a lovely big office with brand new filing cabinets and a shower
room/toilet ensuite. I can come down stairs from our new bedroom which
is above our storage rooms and walk across our tiny "courtyard" to my
office which overlooks our garden. I can see our cats playing in the
garden or can see the wife and daughter relaxing. I can work whenever
I want or stop work whenever I want. If I want a few hundred extra
quid I put a few more hours in without any hassle.

I visited a friend who had an office at the bottom of his garden but
for investment reasons he sold his house and is now operating out of
serviced offices. He's laid out his office pretty well but it's a
little cramped and he has to get dressed and travel to his office in
the morning and go to the shops for something to eat or drink.

What was your question? "Why do you work from home?" I'm sure I can
think of a reason if you let me have a little time!


Peter Saxton from London

Stephen GoldenGun
July 19th 03, 02:46 PM
Peter Saxton > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:20:56 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Jonathan Bryce > wrote in
message
> ...
> >> Stephen GoldenGun wrote:
> >>
> >> > Spam is unsolicited..and spam is not having a return address...spam
is
> >> > allways automated, spam is generally sent at non targeted
> >> > individuals....it is not welcome and outright hostilities exist
towards
> >> > it, it is banned....and in some states it is outlawed...
> >>
> >> It is intended to encourage me to buy something, so it is marketing in
my
> >> book.
> >
> >Well I suppose you could say that flyposting is "marketing" as well, ok I
> >suppose it is as you put it in such simplistic terms, I suppose I was
> >considering marketing something better than that! I suppose I was placing
> >marketing in the boundaries of what most people call "decent and
acceptable
> >practice" I suppose I was not wishing to give "spam" credibility, as it
> >really really costs businesses alot of money.
> >I have read that people have to deal with so much spam at
> >work..surprisingly...the strange thing is..I don't get so much spam..and
I
> >have used this email address for ages on these newsnet forums....
> >Unlike others, I don't bother to put some kind of anti email harvesting
> >address..so only get about two or three per day and those mainly go into
my
> >bulk folder mail...yahoo are quite good like that.
> >
> 2 or 3 per day?
>
> Maybe spammers don't take yahoo addresses seriously either.
>
> I get more than 100 spams a day and I use McAfee SpamKiller to keep
> them out of my inbox. This means that most urgent emails can be dealt
> with quickly and then I can review the spam folder to see if there is
> anything useful. Glancing through the headers and addresses can be
> done pretty quickly since the headers are always designed to make it
> look like something interesting and a genuine email is more sensible.
>
>
> Peter Saxton from London
>


Well, one hundred is a huge amount, I have heard that those systems I think
similar to spam kill are quite good. Where an unknown source has to
"confirm" they've sent them.



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Peter Saxton
July 19th 03, 05:02 PM
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:46:10 +0100, "Stephen GoldenGun"
> wrote:


>Well, one hundred is a huge amount, I have heard that those systems I think
>similar to spam kill are quite good. Where an unknown source has to
>"confirm" they've sent them.
>
Given how the law is being implimented soon it would seem easy to stop
the problem by taking spammers to court. If other countires didnt take
action against spammers then their ability to access the internet
could be curtailed.


Peter Saxton from London

Jonathan Bryce
July 20th 03, 04:59 PM
Stephen GoldenGun wrote:

> Well I suppose you could say that flyposting is "marketing" as well,

Of course flyposting is marketing. What else could it be?